On 'Slipping Away,' Alt-Comic Legend Tim Heidecker Gets Genuine | GRAMMY.com (2025)

On 'Slipping Away,' Alt-Comic Legend Tim Heidecker Gets Genuine | GRAMMY.com (1)

Tim Heidecker

Photo: Chantal Anderson

interview

"I like making a big old gumbo of experiences," the irreverent comic says of melding sincerity and humor on his new record.

Zack Ruskin

|GRAMMYs/Oct 15, 2024 - 02:43 pm

After 20 years, Tim Heidecker’s career remains an enigma of the most delightful sort.

Rightfully revered as an alt-comedy legend for his work across five seasons of Adult Swim’s seminal "Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!," Heidecker’s subsequent gigs have included an ongoing 13-year stretch hosting the satirical "On Cinema" podcast (in character) with fellow comic Gregg Turkington, his 2020 anti-comedy special An Evening with Tim Heidecker, and as of Oct. 18, the release of his fifth studio album as a musician.

Out Oct. 18, Slipping Away is anything but a jokester having a laugh in the studio. Rather, the album is the latest and strongest example of a pivot into sincerity — a journey that's been an adventure for both Heidecker and his fans.

"For the past two summers, as I've toured, there's been a bit of confusion and snickering and people not being sure how to react," Heidecker tells GRAMMY.com. "But by and large, it's a good group of people who are making the transition along with me."

Speaking by phone from his home in Los Angeles, Heidecker was also quick to offer reassurances that he has no intentions of making things too heavy or moribund on his fall tour, where he’ll be supporting the likes of Waxahatchee and Snail Mail. That’s a serious bill for a funny man, but Heidecker is ready for the challenge.

"We don't take things too seriously," he says of his music and tourmates. "There's room to have fun — we just also want it to be okay for people to emote and to feel vulnerable. We can talk about our anxieties and fears and then can go back to goofing on stuff a minute later. That's how human beings should be, I think. I like making a big old gumbo of experiences."

That’s certainly one way to describe Heidecker’s eclectic, beloved and singular output as a comedian. But while his early forays into music may include an undeniably catchy urine-themed Americana song, his last few albums have seen the 48-year-old deal with topics that aren’t always primed for a punchline. Slipping Away touches on everything from climate dread to writer’s block, demonstrating Heidecker's genuine ambitions as a musician in tandem with the talented Very Good Band.

Heidecker spoke with GRAMMY.com about his approach to songcraft, his role as a curator of comedy’s next generation, and how he earned the title of "Dad of the Year" — the name of his new single — by taking his kids to an AJR concert.

This conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Before we dive into your fantastic new album, what's it been like to watch the current Republican candidate for vice president seemingly reenact your film Mr. America as his entire campaign strategy?

Yeah. It's a blast. I couldn't get enough of it. I hope people are discovering that movie. We made it in the era of Trump that we're still somehow in. This has happened before, where we do something on the show and then it kind of happens in real life.

In some ways, I wish you were worse at it, but immense kudos are nonetheless warranted.

Yeah, I've got to stop manifesting things into existence.

Slipping Away isn't the first of your music releases to embrace sincerity as a powerful theme. You've said that, to a certain extent, all your records are concept albums. Given your daughter's vocals are featured on the track "Bells Are Ringing," would you say fatherhood served as a major theme of your latest record?

For sure. I can't separate my creativity from my experience as a father anymore. When the kids were a little younger, it was easier, because babies are a little more neutral in your life. Of course, that's not entirely true. If you watch season three of "Check It Out! With Dr. Steve Brule," there's a lot of diaper humor going on. If you go back and look at my life post-kids, they've definitely influenced my work.

Half this record is about mundane, midlife, personal anxieties, and then the second half of the record is way more macro with things falling apart. The record starts in a very grounded place, with normal feelings, and then devolves into more abstract anxieties about the world.

The lead single, "Well’s Running Dry," deals with the theme of writer's block, which some of your fans may find surprising, given you seem to consistently be involved in a bevy of different projects. Is writer's block a situation you've faced often?

I think I've always had a different perception of my output than my fans do. I always feel like I could be more productive. I go through periods of feeling like the well has run dry, and I'm a little less disciplined about writing and stuff now.

Comedy, for sure, has always been a young man's game, I think. It's a little slower these days, and I've gone through periods of feeling not very fulfilled creatively. We all go through it. I think it's natural. It reminds me of a quote from [director and comedian] Mike Nichols that I heard years ago. He said that writer's block isn't a thing because your brain is just processing stuff in your subconscious. You're always working, you're always observing, you're always processing. And then, one morning, during a run or a shower or something, something is going to pop.

Like the evolution of a thought?

Yeah. I've got things I'm working on right now, but I also feel like creativity comes in big waves, at least for me.

A lot of the songs for this record were written in a short amount of time, but then I'll go months without writing a song. Then I'll get a song, and that inspires another song, and it's like a chain reaction. It's a mysterious thing: this world of making things.

You've referred to Slipping Away as "a true group project." How did going into the studio with the Very Good Band help shape this record into its final form?

I've known everybody in the Very Good Band since before we first toured in 2022. I've worked with them as session musicians on other records, but I didn't really know them that well. I just knew that they were good players. When I asked everybody to do this tour, I got to really bond with them. I didn't know I would like them so much, as people, and I didn't know that we would all enjoy playing together so much, but that's what happened.

Going into this record, my desire was to really try to make this a group effort: something that wasn't just people coming in for a day, recording all their parts, and going home. It was like: let's come in every day and approach these songs together. I still ultimately made the decisions, but I really wanted it to feel like we were a band that went into the studio to make a record together. And that's what we did. It was great fun.

I say this about movies and television and stuff: most of the joy and the motivation to do it is getting to hang out and to spend time with people I like. That's what this was too.

How does finding that common spark in a studio compare with the energy of a writer's room when everything is clicking?

I love an audience, whether it's two people or 600 people. In a writer's room, you're performing a lot: you're pitching and you're trying to sell what's in your mind to people to get them on board. That process is the same in the studio. With the band, you're trying to communicate what's inside of you to them, and to get them to take your thing and make it better.

In both cases, it's all about having the right combination of people. If the chemistry is good and the people are happy to be there and the talent lines up in the right way, it's magical.

Just as Bob Odenkirk helped open the door for "Tim and Eric," it's been wonderful to see you champion people like Vera Drew and John Early, who are now blossoming. Where does getting to witness the successes of "The People's Joker" or John Early's latest special rank on the list of things that bring you the most professional satisfaction?

I am jealous and envious and full of sour grapes for anyone else's success. No, I'm so happy for them. Of course, I don't take full credit at all. I'm so picky and judgmental about comedy and music things, but when I see something that I enjoy, I'm the first to champion it.

Usually, my tastes are not very mainstream. I can't stand when social media gives its attention to something that's already seemingly hugely popular, like "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" or whatever. I'm like... but this John Early guy is the funniest thing, or Vera, or whomever it is. I also want to be regarded as a guy who, if you want to look for something to consume, I'll always be here with some suggestions.

You’ve credited David Byrne as a major influence. Is it fair to say that both music and comedy have been swimming in your brain together from the get go?

Oh yeah. I think music and comedy are peanut butter and chocolate. Look at musical comedy: the Beatles are hilarious; the Monty Python guys make good music. I think we all start out wanting to make stuff, and when you're younger, it's easier to make music or to have a band than it is to say, make a movie. Now, of course, it's a little different because my daughter makes movies every weekend with her friends — like they have their iPad and she can edit it.

How you wish to express yourself manifests in different ways at different times in your life. I like going back and forth between those two things and drama and whatever other mediums my self-expression may take. That's what it is. I'm not worried about how things are being classified but more just trying to get you to see an idea in its purest form.

Your "Office Hours" show has welcomed a slew of incredible guests, including many excellent musicians. Between getting to chat with folks like whistler Molly Lewis and touring with the likes of Waxahatchee and Snail Mail, has spending time with these artists changed or shaped your own approach to music?

I'm very grateful that, over the past 10 years, I've been accepted into this group of talented singer/songwriters and musicians, and that I get to collaborate with them and play with them. They see me as kind of a novelty — they understand that I'm outside my comfort zone but they treat me with great respect.

Ellie [Athayde, bassist for Waxahatchee] is the bass player in our band and she's always like, "You you've got such a weird life." Because I'll check in with her and tell her that I'm doing a movie with Kevin Kline or something and she's just like, "What is this life you lead?" They're used to putting out a record, going on tour, then putting out another record out and going back on tour. If they're not on tour, they're writing. I get to play around in so many different sandboxes that I think it's interesting for some of those people to talk to me about what I'm doing.

Does the Very Good Band keep a pee-themed Americana track in their back pocket, just in case the mood calls for it?

That song is called "Hot Piss" and it's interesting. It's become my "Free Bird" or at least the closer that people call out for from the beginning of the show onwards. Now I'm thinking, "Do I not play that?" And I going to tour and not even play that song? If I remove it from the equation, what happens? To be clear, I've got plenty of songs. That's not the issue. It's just whether playing that song to a Waxahatchee crowd would be a mistake... or is it hilarious?

I think you've got to get Katie Crutchfield to join you for it. Only solution.

Precisely.

Before I let you go, it's so lovely to hear your daughter Amelia's voice on the last track of your new record. What artists or music acts have you two bonded over so far?

That's nice to hear. I'm glad. It was a risk. When I was playing it for everybody, I was like, "You guys tell me if this is too corny or something" but everybody thought it was great.

Recently, we went to go see this group, AJR, that my daughter and my son both love. They play their music constantly in the car. It's not my thing, but it's very clever and well-executed and very catchy. They were coming to L.A., so I pulled my star card and wrote them on Instagram to say we'd love to come to the show. Turns out they were big fans, which is nice, so we got the full VIP treatment. I love being able to offer that the other way when people write me. I'm very happy to put people on the list — it's a fun treat.

We went to see them at Kia Forum, which is the big arena [in L.A.]. They had bells and whistles galore with unbelievable lights and visuals. It was very theatrical. It was so mind-blowing, what they're able to tour and the scope of it. My daughter was just blown away. She'd never been to a big arena show like that before. I have so many videos of them with their brains just exploding as these things were happening on stage. And then she got to meet the guys, and they got a picture together. It was very sweet. I felt like the dad of the year.

What would be a comparable show that you saw at that age?

I saw the Monkees’ reunion tour in 1986. That was my first concert, but they did not exactly have all the bells and whistles of AJR on that tour. There was no VIP section. They weren't even a VIP version of themselves.

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Adam Sandler at the Nocturne Theater in Glendale, California.

Photo: Jerry Hsu/Netflix © 2024

interview

Nothing is quite as it seems in 'Adam Sandler: Love You.' The GRAMMY-nominated comedian discusses honoring his comedic icons, the role music has played in his career, and how his latest turns the concept of a standup special on it head.

Rob LeDonne

|GRAMMYs/Sep 6, 2024 - 04:41 pm

There's a moment at the end of Adam Sandler: Love You, his new meta Netflix stand-up special, that packs an emotional wallop. Guitar in hand, the comedy superstar sings a heartfelt appreciation for the craft he's conquered over the past four decades.

The song is a tribute to humorists past and present, as well as the healing power of laughter. Sandler, whose music is generally parody, sings the Springsteen-style ballad with a distinct earnestness. It's a fitting coda for a film where nothing is quite as it seems.

"Having the special end with this song is like saying, 'Hey guys, this s is so much more important than we realize,'" says the special's director Josh Safdie, displaying some emotion as he considered the heavy moment. "We eventually see clips of all of the comedians who left us too early saying goodbye, and then the special ends with Sandler saying goodbye. It makes you realize we're all going to be leaving, too."

If this sincerity reads like a left turn for Sandler, you haven't been paying attention. The three-time GRAMMY nominee has volleyed from small screen triumph on "Saturday Night Live" to blockbuster films, and a prolific deal with Netflix which has so far resulted in eight films for him and his cadre of collaborators. Along the way, Sandler adventurously zig-zagged between the beloved sophomoric roles that have endeared him to audiences and heavier fare. The latter includes the acclaimed Uncut Gems, co-directed by Josh Safdie and his brother Benny.

Adam Sandler: Love You, out now, is another adventurous chapter that combines Sandler's distinctive voice with the singular, subversive attitude the Safdie brothers are known for.

Safdie approached capturing Sandler's latest standup act (which he's been touring across the country) all with an artful eye. "I wanted people to meet the Adam I know, [and] how special it is to know him and see the complexity behind him," says Josh. "He's a deep thinker and has a lot going on, so we started to build a narrative and what it could be. I've seen a lot of specials and loved messing with the medium."

Netflix was particularly supportive of their collective vision. "It was beautiful, and I've actually never had such support in anything I've ever done," Safdie gushes.

Below, Adam Sandler details inspirations and the healing balm of laughter.

What were some early comedy albums and specials that inspired you?

We put a lot of them in the song at the end, everything that connected with me as a kid. But comedy album-wise, Cheech and Chong's were gigantic in my life. I loved listening to Bob Newhart and Monty Python. Rodney Dangerfield had a massive impact on me, as well as Eddie Murphy's albums. Andrew Dice Clay and Steven Wright.

For me and my friends, they meant so much to us when we were growing up, quoting and talking about them. So I liked the old stuff my father would buy for us, and I liked the stuff my father would.

You're a three-time GRAMMY nominee. Do you have any memories of the ceremonies?

I don't know if I was there for my actual categories, but I've been to the GRAMMYs a bunch of times over the years and have always had a great time. I remember one year introducing Dave Matthews Band. I also remember going to [the Clive Davis Pre-GRAMMY Gala] when I was young.

Somehow I was invited with my friends, and Whitney Houston went up and sang a couple of tunes and I'll never forget what that room felt like. Like, Holy s—. This woman is better than everybody. It was the most undeniable feeling, it was better than anything I've ever heard live. The way she held every note was knocking us on our ass. She also was so sweet on stage and nice to Clive; it was the most charisma [you could imagine]. I'll never forget that night.

That must be like watching Leonardo Da Vinci paint "The Last Supper" in real time.

Yes, it was iconic. She was just so beautiful and sweet, and I can't tell you what it meant to that room. It was unanimous. Like, Wow!

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Still from Netflix's Adam Sandler: Love You. Adam Sandler (R) and Rob Schneider (L) performing at the Nocturne Theater in Glendale, California.

Comedy and music have always been intertwined in your career; was that always a given for you? How'd you make the decision to start incorporating parody songs into your act over the years?

I started doing stand-up when I was really young. I was just 17 and so intimidated by being on stage that I really couldn't get my confidence. I was shaky and my voice was trembling. Like, What am I doing up here? I was in a band growing up and always playing cover tunes from Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith and Black Sabbath; I had a lot more confidence singing other people's stuff.

So my brother said to me one day, "Why don't you bring the guitar on stage and write funny songs?" Tim Herlihy, my roommate at New York University, just started knocking songs out, writing them and saying "Try this!" So when I'd be on stage singing a comedy song when I was a teenager, that was the only part of my show where I felt a little more calm on stage. With my guitar I had something in my hands, and knew exactly what I was going to say because I had the lyrics.

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How did you collaborate with Josh on this project, who directed you to acclaim with his brother Benny in Uncut Gems?

I wanted to make a special, since I had enough stuff from being on the road. I thought, Man, maybe it's time to document this.

Josh has always been nice enough to come out and see the show a bunch of times wherever we were on tour. I love Josh so much and thought, maybe he'd want to direct it. I think it was pretty quick. The next thing I know, he had an amazing amount of ideas.

On 'Slipping Away,' Alt-Comic Legend Tim Heidecker Gets Genuine | GRAMMY.com (9)

Still from Netflix's Adam Sandler: Love You. Adam Sandler (L) and Josh Safdie (R) at the Nocturne Theater in Glendale, California.

One of the most important choices when putting together a special is how you start and end it. Love You begins with you backstage with everybody wanting a piece of you, and the Nicolette Larson cover of Neil Young's "Lotta Love." Where did that come from?

The truth is, when you're going to a show and you're alone in your car on the way, you try to play music that puts you in the mood you'd want to bring to an audience. ["Lotta Love"] is heartbreaking, but you're yearning for something positive to give an audience.

So I'll always listen to tunes that put me in the right frame of mind. But no matter what, by the time I get to the stage the song [and those vibes] get lost! So I try to remember the energy. Every performer is trying to bring on that energy and try to remember what you wanted to give an audience.

The special ends with a song that doubles as an earnest thank you to all of the comedians who've made us laugh over the years. For someone like you to express that is important, because comedians are often taken for granted. What was your inspiration for ending the special with such heart?

There are so many different ways [that] I can answer that. We were on the road for a long time playing the song about Chris Farley everywhere. I loved performing it and feeling the connection the audience had with Chris and the vibe — to make an audience go there doesn't happen very often as a performer. I think me, Josh,and [co-writer] Dan Bulla always talked about what made us feel throughout our life, and dropping jokes from the past and quoting stuff that meant a lot to us.

We wanted to make a song that said "thank you" and what comedy does for us and everybody, and where would we be without it? It's this thing that takes you out of the dark to say, It's gonna be alright. Let's have [someone like] Jerry Lewis lift us out.

I'm thinking of my personal memories of laughter in my family. Do you have your own recollections?

Seeing your family connect over something, like having the same sense of humor, is an amazing feeling.

When I was a kid, my grandfather who I was very close with passed away. The day after, my uncle drove in from New York to our house in New Hampshire and I was upset the whole night. I was crying my eyes out all night and he heard about it. So I was in my room watching a Jerry Lewis movie on my brother's TV and my uncle came in to check on me and asked what I was smiling about, and I said, "Oh, I was watching the Jerry Lewis movie."

I never forgot what Jerry was doing for me; he was taking me out of the pain I was feeling about my grandfather and allowed me to smile again. It was a break from the pain and that's what we wanted to show what comics do. You got real shit going on and you're always going to have it going on, but it's nice to have someone out there say, We know what you're dealing with, but you're allowed to have some fun too.

It's an emotional moment for the audience; how did you hold yourself together performing it?

When I'd sing it I had a hard time not crying. Some of that stuff would rock me in my brain and I'd feel stuff that I couldn't believe I was feeling. I'm just happy we got it and I'm happy it's on there for people to see. I'm very honored to sing that song and show everybody what my feelings are towards all of these comedians meant to me over the years.

It's basically true thoughts: comedy is like a hero. You may be down and out, but hang on: comedy is going to bring you out of that. So, there you go.

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Bob Newhart speaks onstage at the GRAMMY Museum

Photo: Rebecca Sapp/WireImage

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The legendary comic, whose work onstage and on screen spanned multiple generations, passed away at age 94 on July 18.

Christopher Guly

|GRAMMYs/Jul 19, 2024 - 06:00 pm

Bob Newhart, one of the most celebrated comedians of his generation and renowned for his deadpan delivery died at his home in Los Angeles on July 18. He was 94.

Awarded the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts’ Mark Twain Prize for American Humor in 2002, Newhart launched his career with a record-setting record. By the time he transitioned to television with two successful sitcoms, he had become a household name.

Newhart made his vinyl debut on April Fool’s Day in 1960, when Warner Brothers Records released his first comedy album, The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart. A year later, at the 3rd GRAMMY Awards, the former accountant-turned-comic took home three golden gramophones.

At the 1961 GRAMMYs, Newhart won Album Of The Year — beating out two classical albums as well as works by Nat King Cole, Frank Sinatra and Harry Belafonte. Newhart also won Best New Artist at that year's ceremony and, to this day, is the only comedian to win in both categories.

Recorded live on Feb. 10, 1960 at the Tidelands Motor Inn in Houston, Button Down Mind also became the first comedy audio album to reach No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart. The album is widely considered to be one of the most consequential comedy albums of the 20th century and, fittingly, features the subtitle The Most Celebrated New Comedian Since Attila (the Hun).

The album was added to the Library of Congress’s National Recording Registry in 1960. That year, The New York Times noted that Newhart was “the first comedian in history to come to prominence through a recording.” In 2007, the Recording Academy inducted The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart into the GRAMMY Hall of Fame.

His second album, The Button-Down Mind Strikes Back!, similarly topped the Billboard charts and earned Newhart his third GRAMMY Award, this time for Best Comedy Performance — Spoken Word.

Newhart received two additional GRAMMY nods during this illustrious career: His Button Down Concert album was nominated for Best Spoken Comedy Album at the 40th GRAMMY Awards, and nine years later his I Shouldn't Even Be Doing This! was nominated for Best Spoken Word Album.a

The success of Button-Down Mind led to the launch of Newhart's long TV career. His NBC variety show, "The Bob Newhart Shot" only lasted one season, but earned an Emmy for Outstanding Comedy Series in 1962. Newhart found greater success through CBS, which broadcast a series of the same name. On the second "The Bob Newhart Show," which ran from 1972 to 1978, the comic actor played a psychologist,

Four years later, he followed up with another sitcom, "Newhart," which aired until 1990 and in which Newhart played a Vermont innkeeper.

Bob Newhart has continued to have a presence on the small screen. His recording debut has been referenced in a variety of contemporary period shows, including "Mad Men" and "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel."

During his decades-long television career, Newhart received nine EMMY nominations, including as Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy Series over three consecutive years for "Newhart" and three for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Comedy Series for his appearances on CBS’ "The Big Bang Theory."

Born George Robert Newhart on Sept. 5, 1929, in Oak Park, Illinois, Newhart graduated from Loyola University of Chicago in 1952 with a degree in accounting. After serving in the Army during the Korean War, he returned to Loyola for law school, but dropped out and pursued office work.

Newhart worked as an accountant for United States Gypsum Corp., which manufactures construction materials, and later as a copywrighter for Fred Niles Films Company in Chicago. During that time, Newhart began recording "long, antic" phone calls with a friend as audition tapes for comedy jobs. They caught the attention of a Chicago disc jockey, who introduced Newhart to the head of talent at Warner Bros. Records and which led to a life-changing contract in 1959.

It was in the latter category that Newhart won his first and only Emmy in 2013, 20 years after the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences inducted him into its Hall of Fame.

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Ryman Auditorium in 2003

Photo: Frank Mullen/WireImage/Getty Images

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Ever wondered what makes the beloved venue so special? This week's History Of episode has you covered

Ana Monroy Yglesias

|GRAMMYs/Nov 3, 2020 - 07:09 am

Back in 1892, Nashville businessman Thomas G. Ryman built the Union Gospel Tabernacle church. After his death in 1904, the church's name was changed to Ryman Auditorium to honor him. In the 1920s, promoter Lula C. Naff rented the building and booked talent,including Marian Anderson, Charlie Chaplin, Bob Hope, and Doris Day, who made the city a cultural destination.

The church was alsohome tothe Grand Ole Opry radio show for 31 years, beginning in 1943, which brought in more great artists and shows.

Watch Another History Of: Walk To London's Famed Abbey Road Studios With The Beatles

While the beloved, intimate venue—it seats 2,362 people—sat dormant for almost 30 years when the Opry left, it was renovated and revived in the early '90s;it has since hosted many more star-studded shows from the likes of Brandi Carlile, Dolly Parton, Kane Brown, Kelsea Ballerini, and theWu-Tang Clan, whomade history in 2019 as the first hip-hop act to ever headline the space known as "The Mother Church Of Country Music."

Watch the latest episode of GRAMMY.com's History Of video series above to learn more about the iconic Nashville venue.

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Ronny Chieng in Netflix's 'Asian Comedian Destroys America!'

Photo:Marcus Russell Price/Netflix

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Quarantining from Sydney, Australia, the funnyman spoke with GRAMMY.com about the perceptive messages behind 'Asian Comedian Destroys America!' and why he still believes in the American experiment

John Ochoa

|GRAMMYs/Aug 2, 2020 - 05:00 pm

The opening of Ronny Chieng's 2019 Netflix standup comedy special, Asian Comedian Destroys America!, is almost prophetic. In the first 10 minutes, he spills biting critiques about the return of infectious diseases like the measles, the rise in "stupid anti-vaccination idiots," the role the internet plays in making people dumber and how Amazon makes it so you never have to leave your house to buy anything—all things highly relevant in today's pandemic-struck world. It's like a dark comedy turned accidental prophecy.

"Predicting the worst things to happen in the world, turns out, isn't that hard," he tells GRAMMY.com by phone while quarantining in Sydney, Australia. "You just have to assume everything's going to be terrible."

Released last December, the special sees Chieng ridiculing the absurdities of American culture from an outsider's perspective. He destroys America's addiction to hyper-consumerism—"We need [Amazon] Prime harder, faster, stronger … Prime Now … When I press buy, put the item in my hand, now!"—and obsession with individual freedoms.

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Chieng, who was born in Malaysia and reared in Manchester, New Hampshire, Singapore and Australia, brings a truly international point of view to his comedy and special. And even though his jabs against American culture are painfully, and hilariously, revealing, his sharp takes come from a place of love.

"I think the American values are universal and I think people get behind that," he says. "That's why immigrants go to America, because they see something there in the ideology of what the country is supposed to be about. Now, the execution in America is not always [clear,] as we've seen since the founding of America. The execution of those ideals has never been perfect. But I think the fact that America, hopefully, is striving towards those ideals of equality is what draws people there."

Of course, Chieng has never shied away from calling out stupidity in America and around the world. As acorrespondent on "The Daily Show With Trevor Noah" since 2015, he's tackled everything from coronavirus misinformation to frivolous lawsuits against food companies. The beloved show's commitment to finding a deeper meaning within seemingly simple jokes, he says, has impacted his own approach to comedy. It's a concept he practiced in Asian Comedian Destroys America!

"'The Daily Show' changed the way I think of comedy forever now," he says. "I feel like I definitely think of jokes now in terms of, 'What are you trying to say with the joke? Is what you're trying to say intentional or not? Is this really the message you want to put out there?' I think I feel a little bit of an additional burden to make sure that I represent myself and, by extension, Asian people in general in a certain way. I want to represent them with power and dignity and strength and intelligence."

GRAMMY.com spoke with Ronny Chieng about the perceptive messages behind Asian Comedian Destroys America!, the future of live comedy and the importance of racial diversity and authenticity in mainstream storytelling.

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Even though you released your special last December, it talks about a lot of issues we're experiencing as a society right now in terms of global health and race relations. When you think back on the special through this lens, how does it feel to have basically predicted our current situation?

I wish I could have predicted the stock market; that would actually have been useful. Predicting the worst things to happen in the world, turns out, isn't that hard. You just have to assume everything's going to be terrible.

I was trying to give a timestamp to the special, actually ... Not that I didn't want it to be a classic, timeless special, but I just wanted people to know the context in which I was making it and I was writing it and I was performing it. This was the world we were in … So I was deliberately trying to make sure people understood that this was me in America in 2019, and I guess I'm kinda of glad I did that ... I want people to know that I was thinking of this before all this happened.

In the special, you make a case for an Asian-American president. In your opinion, how would an Asian-American president handle this kind of double-barreled blast of a pandemic and nationwide protests?

I think the spirit of the joke was that Asian people will approach problem-solving with logic and science-solution-based ideas. So I would love to believe that if an Asian person [were] president, they would do the same thing. I don't want to point fingers here, but you look at the Asian countries and how they handled the coronavirus outbreak, and most of them handled it a lot better than America: Singapore, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. So bringing some of that scientific-based thinking into American politics, I think, could help.

And with regards to the nationwide protests, I'll be damned if I know how to solve any of this; it's a mess. But again, in the spirit of the joke, I think there's something towards having a third-party race that acts as a referee in situations, that has no racial agenda [and] who just wants things to work and wants things to work well. I think everyone could benefit from that kind of approach ... a more logical and unbiased approach would help everything.

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In past interviews, you've talked about the rise in cultural influence of Asian-Americans in the U.S. We are seeing an explosion of Asian and Asian-American culture and creatives breaking through the American mainstream. As an Asian living in America, how does it make you feel to see your people and culture reflected on such a national level nowadays?

Obviously, it feels great to have your ideas and stories being told from an authentic point of view. So for me, storytelling is all about authenticity, and I just feel like the problem with having Asian side characters isn't so much that they are side characters—it's that there's no authenticity in it. It's basically tokenistic.

As someone who consumes a lot of culture, essentially I consume stories. Whether it's standup or movies or television shows, I'm a consumer of storytelling. So it's nice to see people who you can relate to in these stories, because I think for the longest time, we never saw any of that … So we got used to that, until we see stories being told from these authentic and powerful points of view. Then we go, "Oh yeah, we were missing this."

So I think that feeling is what's causing, as you described it, this kind of surge in Asian-American storytelling … I think there's always a search for the original story. We've never told these stories. We've never told them from this point of view. I think people are seeing how interesting that can be.

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And also, I think that society's demographic is changing ... I think I read a stat that Generation Z is going to be the most diverse generation in American history in terms of racial demographics. So part of seeing Asian people in storytelling in the West, it's just seeing stories reflecting actual society. We grow up and we see Asian people all the time. They're all around us, but then they're not in the stories that we tell in the West. I think, as the younger generation comes up ... it's not about diversity when we see Asian people or black people. It's about seeing actual society because that's how we understand society to be ... If you watch a TV show or a movie and there are no Asian people or no Black people or no Mexican people in America, you're almost like, "What? How is this America?" It's coming to a point where if you don't tell these stories, it becomes inauthentic storytelling.

I'm in the business of storytelling, so obviously it's nice that people want to hear my stories now. But also as just a consumer, it's nice to see those stories being told on TV; you feel empowered by it. I think storytelling affects society, which affects culture. It has real-world ramifications. If you only see Asian people in storytelling in a certain way, then that's how you think about them in real life.

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It's getting increasingly harder to smile or laugh these days. In your eyes, what is the role of comedy today? What can the art form provide for everyday comedy fans in our current situation?

I think comedy helps to lighten people's mood and it helps them hopefully get through a day. I think laughter is such a release for people from the tensions of the day, so I think it's really good for mental health. I think it can help you deal with unpleasant situations a little bit better ... Either you yourself, or you see someone else making fun of a situation which you encountered that frustrated you ... and then you see a bunch of other people laughing at that same joke, and [you're] like, "Oh yeah, all these people agree, so I'm not alone, I'm not a weirdo."

Comedy, in a way, can support you in that way, indirectly. Even though you don't know any of these people, you don't know the comic, you don't know the audiences, but you feel supported that your view of the world, other people agree with it, even if maybe you weren't able to express it in that way ... Regardless of your emotional response, we all are talking about the same situation; we are still experiencing that same thing, whatever that joke was about. I feel like maybe that's a way people can deal with their emotions, maybe in a more positive way.

I think there's also a chance, with comedy, to see other people's point of view … whether you're left-leaning and then you see a more conservative comic making his point of view, or you're a conservative person and you see a more liberal comic making that point of view. It's a chance to see other points of view being expressed that you might not always encounter in your life.

You come from a standup comedy background, an industry that has been devastated by the pandemic. What do you think live comedy will look like in a post-pandemic world?

Damn, it's not looking good. Right now, it's looking like a lot of outdoor gigs. I've seen in New York, they're already trying to do more Central Park shows, they're trying to do shows literally in car parks on the back of a truck.

It's sad ... It's my primary profession, so this wasn't a side gig for me; this was my main thing. But I'm pretty hopeful of two things. One: I'm hopeful that comedy will adapt. I think what I've seen over the last couple of months is that people want it ... So it might go back to its roots a little bit, where comedy was always a room of 30-50 people. It's become theaters and arenas and stadiums, but really, comedy was for like 30-40 people in a room. Maybe it might go back to that, smaller numbers.

The other thing I'm hopeful for is that the strength of America is in its innovation. Maybe not its response to emergencies, but in its innovation, America's No. 1, so I'm still crossing my fingers for a vaccine. [Laughs.] And if a vaccine happens in the next year, then I think we can go back to the way it was before in terms of comedy audiences showing up to clubs.

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But one thing I have seen—it's still early days, and I'm no longer in New York—but people are showing up. And if you do a gig, people will just show up. I think, if anything, [the pandemic has] shown how indispensable standup comedy is. People just need it. They're willing to risk everything. Performers and audiences are willing to risk everything just to tell these dick jokes ... So for better or for worse, people are still showing up for comedy.

People who are still doing it, they're not doing it for money anymore … It's America, so I would love to see everyone get paid, but there is something powerful in [that]. When people do comedy now, it's purely for self-expression, because there is no money in it, and you're literally risking your life doing a show.

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You recently told the "CBS This Morning" podcast that "The Daily Show" changed your approach to comedy in that it makes you think about the message behind the joke in addition to the joke itself. Similarly, your special carries a lot of messages about race, about your experience as a non-U.S. citizen in America. Do you foresee your comedy in the future always having this kind of deeper meaning?

"The Daily Show" changed the way I think of comedy forever now. I feel like I definitely think of jokes now in terms of, "What are you trying to say with the joke? Is what you're trying to say intentional or not? Is this really the message you want to put out there?" I think I feel a little bit of an additional burden to make sure that I represent myself and, by extension, Asian people in general in a certain way. I want to represent them with power and dignity and strength and intelligence.

So the jokes that I do, I keep asking myself, "If this is funny and it works, is it sending the right message?" But the more I do comedy, I think the better I get at telling funny jokes that say what I want them to say. And you can do it subtly or you can do it overtly, but as long as it is saying what you want it to say, and of course that it's funny. That's the real challenge for me, [finding] a combination of those two things. It gets easier for me to find those jokes and make them say what I want them to say, easier. I think it's a combination of getting older, more experienced with comedy writing, and knowing my voice better—knowing what I want to say [and] how I want to say it.

Do you feel your special accomplished that goal?

Yeah, if I do say so myself. I'm very happy with it. I'm happy with how it looked. I'm happy with the material; I was working on it for two years ... I'm really happy with Netflix and my producer at All Things Comedy, Mike Bertolina, and the director, Sebastian DiNatale, [and] everyone who worked on it. It was the first time I was given that [many] resources and creative control to do something that just had my name on it. They all supported that; everyone really supported the vision. I'm always very critical with my own performances.

But overall, I'm really happy with how it turned out, and I think it sent the message that I wanted it to send, even visually. For example, one of the visual themes in the special was—I wanted it to be [like] American show business, because I felt like Asian performers in America were never given that platform, [like] that Johnny Carson show. I wanted to recreate that feeling, that kind of classic American show-business vibe, and have someone on there who not only is an Asian person, but is talking about things not just for an Asian audience. Speaking for myself, everyone gets what they want out of the art that you create, but I personally feel like I achieved that.

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Your special ends on a really uplifting note about racial harmony and finding the genuine niceness in strangers. There's been a lot of conversations about race and racial harmony in America these past few months. Where do you see this country going in the future in terms of race relations? How do we get through this turmoil as a society?

Dude, like I said before, I'll be damned if I can solve racism in America. [Laughs.] But I will say that I think the American values are universal and I think people get behind that. That's why immigrants go to America, because they see something there in the ideology of what the country is supposed to be about. Now, the execution in America is not always [clear,] as we've seen since the founding of America. The execution of those ideals has never been perfect. But I think the fact that America, hopefully, is striving towards those ideals of equality is what draws people there.

And then on a less philosophical note, if you want some actual hard data to be hopeful about, I think Generation Z is the most diverse generation. I think they'll be better equipped to handle a lot of this for many reasons. One: They've grown up with technology. Two: They've grown up with a lot of people around them who aren't of the same race, so I think they'll be more harmonious in their approach ... Again, I'm no sociologist, but I think what we're seeing right now is the last death throes of an older generational way of thinking. For me, this battle, as much as it is racial, it's also generational. I think it's old versus new, what we're seeing a lot of right now. I personally hope that "new" wins, because I think "new" is more progressive and I think they're less racist.

You have this great joke in your special about how Chinese citizens and non-U.S. foreigners look at America as being the best. You compare America to being the NBA. Given everything that's happening here recently, do you still stand by that belief that America is the best?

It's tough to judge someone when they are at a low point. If you judge anyone by their lowest point, no one is going to look good. Undoubtedly, I think America is at a bit of a low point right now. Do I still believe in the experiment? Yeah, I do, and that's why I'm going back. Even now, I just think of [America] as home … Is America the best? I think how it handles the next year will really determine.

One thing that is hopeful is that I think it's the only country that is capable of change like this ... a country that's capable of change through citizen protesting, through democracy, essentially; that's not as common as you would think. A lot of other countries wouldn't let it even get to this point where people can protest and air their views publicly. Obviously in America, it hasn't been just smooth protests. But I feel like the protests are making change happen. I think laws have been changed already, I think some people have been arrested. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in America, I think change is still possible, which for a lot of countries it's not.

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